tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post7535886021597331715..comments2024-01-25T05:44:34.896+02:00Comments on God in a Shrinking Universe: Miroslav Volf on John MilbankPatrikhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10237545786695465374noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-79155937240600919232007-03-07T22:31:00.000+02:002007-03-07T22:31:00.000+02:00volf's criticism seems a little off-base. already...volf's criticism seems a little off-base. already in t&st, if anything, one ought to worry about the use of power in milbank since his interpretation of how to deal with evil is very augustinian. force can be educative and in the end not violent at all. we act in the faith that our actions will-not-have-been-violent.<BR/><BR/>spectatorship was always the greater evil in milbank and his essay in being reconciled does not really change his position it just clarifies the great extent to which he was never pacifist (his critique is one i am sympathetic too, even if i suspect he would have to be much more nuanced in order to make pacifists feel like they had been represented fairly).<BR/><BR/>LoA.Lawrence of Arabiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03188260745656785160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-88952342842269271022007-02-08T01:49:00.000+02:002007-02-08T01:49:00.000+02:00You also might want to read Volf's new book "The E...You also might want to read Volf's new book "The End of Memory". It would be very enlightening for this conversation.Brandon Sipeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07809423583698125572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-41321826767897527762007-02-07T01:53:00.000+02:002007-02-07T01:53:00.000+02:00on second thought, joshua's blog no longer exists....on second thought, joshua's blog no longer exists...<br /><br />a moment of silence...John P.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15932170293301607563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-18851304392097004102007-02-06T16:10:00.000+02:002007-02-06T16:10:00.000+02:00there was a similar discussion on a different quot...there was a similar discussion on a different quote from Volf over at Joshuas blog a little while back. <br /><br />The quote which Joshua posted was on the topic of Human nonviolence in its relationship to God's judgment. I think it is relevant to this discussion.<br /><br />You might check it out:<br /><br />http://blog.joshuaralston.com/?p=97John P.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15932170293301607563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-6187290886653596812007-02-05T16:19:00.000+02:002007-02-05T16:19:00.000+02:00Volf is VERY informed about violence. Don't get me...Volf is VERY informed about violence. Don't get me wrong: I liked most of <i>Exclusion and Embrace</i> very much. I just always got the opinion that Volf tragically knew more about the many dimensions of violence than about the power of nonviolence. I always thought that Volf should sit down for some very long talks with Desmond Tutu.<br /><br />I consider Milbank to be a hopeless Constantinian and am always surprised by the seriousness with which folk like Hauerwas take him.Michael Westmoreland-White, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06343135380354344847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-47215895582042333502007-02-05T10:41:00.000+02:002007-02-05T10:41:00.000+02:00I think that is Milbank's dichotomy, not Volf's. I...I think that is Milbank's dichotomy, not Volf's. I think Volf's treatment is rather nuanced, and is also informed about the reality of violence in a way most theologians aren't.Patrikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10237545786695465374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-39411041584418491342007-02-05T10:28:00.000+02:002007-02-05T10:28:00.000+02:00While I think the evil of spectatorship cannot be ...While I think the evil of spectatorship cannot be ignored or downplayed, I also think Volf sets up a false dichotomy in that part of Exclusion and Embrace--spectatorship or violent action. I reject nonresistance and violence for nonviolent direct action.Michael Westmoreland-White, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06343135380354344847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-15287861914600792642007-02-01T23:22:00.000+02:002007-02-01T23:22:00.000+02:00I'll see if I can include it in a paper sometime. ...I'll see if I can include it in a paper sometime. :)Haldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03936185959033443640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-88975376012633663012007-02-01T14:53:00.000+02:002007-02-01T14:53:00.000+02:00halden, that is a remark that has real potential t...halden, that is a remark that has real potential to become notorious... ;)Patrikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10237545786695465374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-56315200297239962702007-02-01T14:52:00.000+02:002007-02-01T14:52:00.000+02:00Yeah, it struck me as very accurate and significan...Yeah, it struck me as very accurate and significant too.Patrikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10237545786695465374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-10708044525391231312007-02-01T14:25:00.000+02:002007-02-01T14:25:00.000+02:00Thanks for reminding me of this great Volf quote -...Thanks for reminding me of this great Volf quote - I read it before I read any Milbank and seeing it again I realise how important it is.byron smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17938334606675769903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-75673015246493695212007-02-01T02:29:00.000+02:002007-02-01T02:29:00.000+02:00Milbank is one of the most brilliant idiots to eve...Milbank is one of the most brilliant idiots to ever become a theologian.<br /><br />Seriously, he is brilliant. But so many of his ideas are really innane.Haldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03936185959033443640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27405843.post-11011184355427677292007-01-31T19:11:00.000+02:002007-01-31T19:11:00.000+02:00This is a great passage from Volf...however, I wou...This is a great passage from Volf...however, I would point out that if you read the chapter "Violence: Double Passivity" in Milbanks newer book <i>Being Reconciled: Ontology and Pardon</i>, you will find that Milbank has seemingly flip-flopped on this position. <br /><br />In it, he considers the violence of spectatorship and how this corrolates to those who choose not to act (violently?) to prevent injustice. Ultimately, he suggests that those who watch the violence of injustice without engaging it are actually committing an act infinitely more violent.<br /><br />I am not convinced, but his consideration of spectatorship is compelling. You can also find a response to this position from Hauerwas in the book <i>Must Christianity be Violent?</i>John P.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15932170293301607563noreply@blogger.com