While we are discussing the theological problem of war, take 20 minutes time to read this report by Robert Fisk - one of the few westerners that really know what goes on in the Muslim world, and you will have a more accurate - but bleaker - picture of our world.
Might have to get that brick of a book he just published, too.
The Threat to Democracy
1 week ago
4 comments:
In that article he's hardly scratching the surface. Most Westerners have never bothered to read the Qur'an or the Sirat Rasul Allah or even the Hadiths, and have no idea what the basic worldview from inside Islam looks like.
Patrik, if you had to take a guess how many instances the early Muslim sources record that Mohammed ordered someone to be assassinated for criticizing him, how often would you guess that had happened, based on your current knowledge? Or if you had to guess "true or false" on whether the early Muslim sources record Mohammed ordering someone to be tortured for not giving over their treasure after they were conquered by his army, would you guess true or false?
What is you point? How many instances of killing by order of God do you find in the Old Testament? I'm sure there are mor of the in the book of Joshua alone than in all of the Qur'an.
The extremely important point in that article is that the terrorism that today is directed at the west is not based on fanaticism or barbarism or anything else, but is a rather obvious result of the horrifying politics the western powers have directed at the arab world for centuries. They hate us, not for our "values", but because of the way our leaders have conspired to killing tens our thousands of them.
If Robert Fisk knows what's going on the Middle East, he certainly isn't letting anyone else in on the secret.
Just showering with the same dreary old Commie twaddle as always...
Welcome back.
But Patrik, with all due respect, please consider whether you might have overlooked this point:
Because Mohammed ordered torture and assassination, and because Islam recognizes no later prophet, it means that nobody within Islam, now or ever, can make a categorical statement that assassination or torture is wrong. Likewise on slavery because Mohammed was a slave-owner and a slave-trader.
Your argument seems to be "all religions have done bad things in the name of God so we have no right to say anything" (as if the point were moral one-upmanship, which it's not). But that doesnt' respond to my point at all; the point is that in Islam Mohammed is the last, greatest, ultimate authority, and therefore Islam does not have the resources for considering these things to be wrong.
As far as whether Islam's current round of violence is really all our fault -- the history books show that what is happening now is very consistent with Islam's behavior in the days of Mohammed, before Europe was a world power, and long before Israel was a nation.
I know what you're aiming to find every possible way this could be our fault. It's commendable for humility. But I'd encourage you to read some ancient historians -- particularly Muslim historians in translation when you can find them. I think you'll find your current impressions are based on very partial information.
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